Telemachus shows his mature side. He is starting to follow and continue his father's duties. Since Odysseus isn't there Telemachus feels like he should step up. But the assembly sees him as an immature boy. During their meeting the assembly stays quiet. The reason why they were quiet was because Telemachus sounded mighty and made sure he was heard. He sounded strong and not only did he make sure his point was made he also made his speech passionate.Telemachus speech made the men cry, and i had no idea why. It confused me why did they cry so much? I thought they didn't care as much or respected him enough.
After Telemachus speech, Antinous one of the suitors of the assembly blames and insults the queen. Obviously he wants to marry her for power, but she's not making up her mind. I think Penelope can't make up her mind who to marry because she still has faith in Odysseus to come back. If she can't pick a husband then obviously she loves Odysseus. But on the side note, maybe it is because she wants Telemachus to be in power. Antinous seems to be the bad guy, always forcing things-- he wants things to go his way. No one is always right, but he thinks he knows everything. I feel like he's going to be the one people look down on and is mistaken for a dictator rather than someone who'll try to help his town. Book 2, illustrates Penelope's image-- she doesn't sound queen like. She sounds promiscuous and isn't trustworthy. Why does she take so long with her father in law's funeral? I feel like she is hiding something from her son and the assembly-- this makes Antinous insult her because she can't be respected as a queen. After the insults Antinous made and pretty much trying to get the suitors to kick out Penelope from the town, Telemachus still talks to the assembly with pride and respect even if the assembly does not. He stands up for his mother and explains how no one will approve if he kicks out his own mother-- his townspeople and the gods would be against his decision. But I mean, who would ever kick out their OWN mother from their town. I certainly wouldn't because no mother deserve to be put/shut out anywhere or from anyone. This kind of behavior would disappoint the gods and no one can disobey them. Telemachus demands the suitors to leave his palace and if they don't listen he will ask Zeus to punish them. After asking Zeus for this quick favor two eagles appear. This was like a sign. After reading that passage, i realized that the Gods were on Telemachus side and the the suitors were wrong and they needed to live because they had no reason to be there. The assembly became afraid; but one did not seem to believe any of it. Eurymachus, the leading suitor didn't believe in the "sign". This was also confusing because it made me think he was going agains the Gods. This gave me an idea of the suitors being dictators! And since kings aren't rulers forever people who are power hungry will do what ever they need to do to be at the top. For example, Odysseus is gone-- now every suitor wants to be in power especially the men who THINK they can handle the job. Everyone is power hungry, but a good heart with a good mind will win the throne and the peoples trust. It is not always about "you" its about everyone.
After Telemachus speech, Antinous one of the suitors of the assembly blames and insults the queen. Obviously he wants to marry her for power, but she's not making up her mind. I think Penelope can't make up her mind who to marry because she still has faith in Odysseus to come back. If she can't pick a husband then obviously she loves Odysseus. But on the side note, maybe it is because she wants Telemachus to be in power. Antinous seems to be the bad guy, always forcing things-- he wants things to go his way. No one is always right, but he thinks he knows everything. I feel like he's going to be the one people look down on and is mistaken for a dictator rather than someone who'll try to help his town. Book 2, illustrates Penelope's image-- she doesn't sound queen like. She sounds promiscuous and isn't trustworthy. Why does she take so long with her father in law's funeral? I feel like she is hiding something from her son and the assembly-- this makes Antinous insult her because she can't be respected as a queen. After the insults Antinous made and pretty much trying to get the suitors to kick out Penelope from the town, Telemachus still talks to the assembly with pride and respect even if the assembly does not. He stands up for his mother and explains how no one will approve if he kicks out his own mother-- his townspeople and the gods would be against his decision. But I mean, who would ever kick out their OWN mother from their town. I certainly wouldn't because no mother deserve to be put/shut out anywhere or from anyone. This kind of behavior would disappoint the gods and no one can disobey them. Telemachus demands the suitors to leave his palace and if they don't listen he will ask Zeus to punish them. After asking Zeus for this quick favor two eagles appear. This was like a sign. After reading that passage, i realized that the Gods were on Telemachus side and the the suitors were wrong and they needed to live because they had no reason to be there. The assembly became afraid; but one did not seem to believe any of it. Eurymachus, the leading suitor didn't believe in the "sign". This was also confusing because it made me think he was going agains the Gods. This gave me an idea of the suitors being dictators! And since kings aren't rulers forever people who are power hungry will do what ever they need to do to be at the top. For example, Odysseus is gone-- now every suitor wants to be in power especially the men who THINK they can handle the job. Everyone is power hungry, but a good heart with a good mind will win the throne and the peoples trust. It is not always about "you" its about everyone.
- Why did it take the assembly so long to meet?
- Why does Antinous blame Telemachus mother, Penelope?
- What does the two eagles symbolizes? Looking beyond that the gods sent them, why are they significant?
- Do you think the gods are on Telemachus side?
Imagery- Homer describes how the two eagles are to each other; how they glided to how they were above people's head/homes. Again, relating to the theme (power), Zeus sends down the two eagles to show who is in greater rule. Also, to show how helpful Zeus can be when his orders are followed. The
two eagles show strength and stability; the eagles are the protectors of the town- "A good ruler has an eagle's eye, a lion's heart...."
2. Telemachus speech was meant to threaten and inform the assembly/suitors who was in line to be king if Odysseus does not come back. This had an importance because it is clear that he is speaking up with pride and showing he is old/mature enough to handle his father's duties-- he is ready to take over what was left. And him wanting to sail away to find his father shows he has hope for his Odysseus. He is not power hungry, but will take over if he hast to. Sailing away will help him know where and if his father is still alive. This will become his journey.
3. The prince, Telemachus, is also showing a sign of becoming a hero. Taking after his father and being experienced of power shows a hero is to be born. Not only is he protecting his mother, he thinks about what the gods and other people might say if Penelope is kicked out. He doesn't follow other people's orders, but listens to the gods. He can be trustworthy. But, if he does sail away and look for his father who will rule? Becoming a voyager or going on a voyage might hurt his position as a ruler.
I am connecting Book 2 to Antigone. Both talk about how the gods are always right and how the gods are neutral but clearly they are on a side. The gods in Antigone punished Creon because what he has done was "wrong" (the gods "killed" Hameon and his wife because of imprisoning Antigone") and the gods brought the two eagles upon the assembly to show he is on Telemachus side (he asked for their assistance).
Power is one of the themes of Book 2. Both the Odyssey and the Iliad show men have great strength and heroism-- showing what having power can really do for you. The suitors seem to have power but not hero like. Telemachus has qualities of a hero but has to be inspired to show power.
- Thinking back to how the suitors and assembly was towards Telemachus, how did they treat him? Did they think of him as a mature king? Did they show respect for what Telemachus was asking them to do?
Hey Jammy. I really enjoyed reading your post. I think that your summary did a very good job at summing up Book 2. I also think that you had valid points in your blog. For example, I agree with you that no mother deserves to be kicked out of their house like the townspeople said to Penelope about her father. In addition, I agree with you about our initial thoughts while reading. I automatically thought the God's were on Telemachus' side when I first read that part.
ReplyDeleteI think that it took the assembly so long to meet because Telemachus wasn't sure if he wanted to call the meeting into place. Once he actually does call the assembly, people realize that this occasion marks the first time that the assembly has been called since Odysseus left.
Antinous blames Penelope because he says she seduces every suitor but will not commit to any of them. He also says that Penelope said that she would choose a husband as soon as she finished weaving a burial shroud for her father-in-law, Laertes. But each night, she carefully undid the knitting that she had completed during the day, so that the shroud could never be finished. Antinous says that if Penelope can make no decision, then she should be sent back to Icarius so that he can choose a new husband for her.
I'm honestly not sure what side that God's are on at this point but it seems like they are against Telemachus just because he refuses to throw his mother out. It is still hard for me to tell this early though what side they're on. In my opinion, the assembly treated Telemachus respectfully but they could have been nicer. I think that they did think of him as a mature king which is what they should have thought in the first place.
I too believe that Telemachus kept the assembly waiting because at his stage in life, he is still a shy young man and he feels a little insecure to speak to a crowd of people. Athena gives him the courage to speak to the king and explain as to why he came in the first place.
ReplyDeletePenelope is to blame because he frequently gives the suitors hope that she will soon pick a new husband, but she then chooses not to commit to that glimmer of hope. She claims she will choose once she finishes a burial shroud for Laerates, but she never finishes because she is going back to her starting spot on the burial shroud. He feels Icarius needs to be the one to pick a husband for her.
I too believe the double eagles are to represent that Zeus is the one who will always lend a helping hand to Telemachus. It shows that he is strong and will be by his side throughout his journey.
Although there is still not much information regarding this question, I honestly do believe the gods are on Telemachus's side because he is starting to grow into a strong warrior, and the gods are going to help him accomplish his goal to both find his father, and to become a man.
It is pretty clear that the suitors were always treating Telemachus like he was too young and immature to understand what was going on, so they would take advantage of that opportunity. They would think they had nothing to worry about, as far as power over the kingdom went. It was only when he spoke out against them did they show a little concern over their ability to grasp control over the kingdom.
Antinous wants to marry the queen because he wants to gain her riches and estate.
ReplyDeleteIt took the assembly so long to meet because they did not have a strong central leader to govern the assembly. They believed they could not make strong decisions without one.
Antinous blames Telemachus mother, Penelope, because he wants to gain the support of other suitors so Penelope will be forced to marry one of them.
The two eagles symbolize leadership and the newfound power that Telemachus has gained.
I believe that Athena is on Telemachus’ side but the rest of the gods are indifferent and are waiting to see how things play out.
The suitors did not respect Telemachus like they did his father. In time, Telemachus will learn the art of debate and he will gain respect and power like his father did.
Your responses were excellent and well-thought out. You did the best you could with the minimal amount of information given in book two.